Minister Tajani, we have gone from the success of Giorgia Meloni and the Italian government at the G7 to our isolation in the European game. What is happening?
“I advise everyone not to dramatize. Negotiations are always tough and there have always been standoffs. Those who today speak of Italian isolation, which is also impossible for many historical, political and economic reasons, have been too submissive towards Europe in the past and our country has not gained from it.”
Are you saying that the center-right works better than the center-left for the national interest?
«The concept is this. Europeanism is not always saying yes and everything is fine, Madame the Marchioness. Europe is built together, even through tough confrontations. That’s what’s happening. I want to be optimistic. Everything will work out for the best. But we shouldn’t just talk about names. What matters are the contents and programs that everyone, von der Leyen as well as everyone else, undertakes to create.”
Is there really a risk that Fitto, a program man, will not be executive vice-president of the EU commission, and in his place could be the Macronian Breton?
“First of all, they are not alternatives. There is not just one executive vice-president. And then I invite you to stay calm: there is no need to follow the rumors from Brussels. The game is all open.”
However, don’t you think that there is a surplus of aggressiveness in Meloni’s strategy and this could cause the game to end which is not to our advantage?
«I don’t see this excess of aggressiveness. Meloni has defended and is defending Italy’s role. President Mattarella also rightly used very firm tones. And it cannot be said that the Head of State is not a great pro-European.”
Why do you claim that Italian isolation is impossible?
«Italy cannot be isolated thanks to its size. We are the second largest manufacturing industry on the continent, the third largest European economy, we have a stable government that is the result of the popular vote and we have a ruling class recognized in Europe. I myself am vice-premier in the current government, I have been European commissioner and twice vice-president of the EU commission, I have held the position of vice-president of the EPP for 22 years. Not to mention Fitto’s great experience in Brussels institutions. And I want to remind all those who say Italy is cornered, Italy is out of the picture and other things like that, which is far from true, that ours is not and is not considered an ugly, dirty and bad right-wing government, but a government of center-right with whom we speak, with whom we compare ourselves and in which there are many different sensitivities. I said all this to my friends and colleagues during the EPP summit the other day, which preceded the European Council, and I see that the People’s Party to which I am honored to belong have realized the need to look with great respect at Italy. I also reminded them of the words of President Mattarella who said that Europe does not exist without Italy.”
What should Italy get from Europe?
«Be careful: you don’t just take from Europe, you also have to give. It’s a quid pro quo. Our country needs to be assigned a prestigious portfolio in the new EU Commission, including an executive vice-presidency. And we must give Europe a Serie A player. The negotiations are naturally done by the Prime Minister. As for me, I consider Fitto to be the right person. He doesn’t have to do an apprenticeship, he doesn’t have to go to school about Europe, he knows the mechanisms and dynamics of Brussels and this is a great advantage. Berlusconi decided in 2008 to nominate me as European Commissioner precisely because I had long experience in the EU.”
The criterion of experience, however, is also what seems to be in vogue now to the detriment of the strong discontinuity that Meloni asked for from the start. Some of the (perhaps) incoming commissioners are still the same as always. Did he see that Dombrovskis, the austerity hawk, was heading for his third term?
«Names and portfolios are all to be defined. However, it was a serious mistake on the part of the centre-left government to accept the portfolio for Gentiloni without having the vice-presidency, thus placing the Italian commissioner under the leadership of a vice-president”.
We will have the center-right parties on July 19 voting in three different ways on Ursula: abstention by FdI, yes by Forza Italia, no by Lega. Doesn’t this weaken Italy?
«It’s always been like this. After all, we belong to three different political families. However, I hope that Meloni can be fully involved and vote yes to the vote of confidence in von der Leyen. I’ll give you an example…”.
Nail.
«In 2019, Merkel, to ensure von der Leyen’s election to the European Parliament, spoke with the Polish Conservatives and Ursula had the necessary votes».
That time the Eurogroup of Conservatives and Reformists split. If Meloni votes for Ursula will they split again?
“Every election is a story in itself. And in any case it would be a mistake to ignore the Conservatives.”
Salvini claims that in the negotiations for the appointments there is “a smell of a coup d’état” in the EU. Do you like this image?
«These are political judgments, which absolutely have no influence on Italy’s weight at a European level. I use another language. And my general approach is this. A pro-European firmness that protects Italy’s interests. When we go out of this balance, we risk weakening our country. Which hasn’t happened so far.”
What, in your opinion, should be the real sign of discontinuity between the new and old EU commission?
«The biggest mistake made in the legislature that has just ended was the fundamentalist policy on environmental matters. This policy took into account neither social problems nor industrial and agricultural policies. This is why I say: let’s open up to the Conservatives and not to the Greens. The vote of European citizens was clear. They want neither denialism about environmental problems nor the new pantheism of Greta Tumberg. Conversely, they ask for a pragmatic fight against climate change. In short, I am a third-way environmentalist.”
However, the Socialists and Liberals want the Greens in the Ursula majority and do not want Meloni and the Conservatives.
«This is proof that the left has unfortunately lost its social dimension and its support for industrial policy. It deals more with theories than with concrete problems.”
In any case, how much does Ursula risk in voting in the chamber?
“With secret ballot voting, if there is an agreement with the Conservatives, there is no risk.”
Speaking of secrecy. There are those who believe in the existence of a covert agreement to drop Ursula in the vote and put Tajani in her place. She should know if it’s true or not.
«It’s a joke. If I say, as I have been saying for some time, that Forza Italia will vote for von der Leyen, so it will be. I only have one word.”
Your position on the liberal Kallas and the socialist Costa?
“I was telling you before that we must not only talk about names but also about programs. My request is that Kallas make a very clear commitment, in addition to Ukraine, for which he has always had a strong support, also on the Middle East, the Mediterranean and Africa.”
And what should Costa do?
«I have many doubts about the duration of his mandate as president of the European Council. It must be clear that it cannot last more than two and a half years. The alternation with the EPP must be asserted. If Roberta Metsola doesn’t preside over the assembly of Strasbourg and Brussels for the entire 5-year period, we don’t see why the role of the socialist Costa shouldn’t last the same amount of time.”
© ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
Read the full article on
The messenger
