In the interview for the Italian release of Tatami we spoke with Guy Nattiv and Zar Amir Ebrahimi, screenwriters and directors (and actress!) for the first time as a couple
There are cultural and accuracy reasons behind the fact that Tatami is directed by two directors, Guy Nattivi (Israeli) e Tsar Amir Ebrahimi (Iranian), the second is an actress known to us for Holy Spider who had been entertaining the idea of moving into directing for some time. The point was for Nattivi, from which the project starts, to have someone in the creative part who could describe Iranian culture well. But it still wasn’t easy, first because accepting a collaboration between an Israeli and an Iranian entails different problems for each of the two, and second because neither of the two was used to making films with so little money anymore.
Nevertheless Tatami not only is it a masterpiece, but it was selected in Venice and was one of the most popular films of the last festival. Now it’s coming out in Italy, it’s been in theaters since April 4th, and we spoke with the two directors to understand how they did it.
The great idea that supports the film is to tell the story of a desertion intertwined with a tournament, between encounter and encounter. When did you realize that you could intertwine the two things?
GUY NATTIV: In 2020 I started writing and I came up with this idea about judo, which is a very popular sport in both Israel and Iran. Furthermore, there was a case similar to the one we are describing.
Which?
GN: If I’m not mistaken it happened in 2019 at the World Judo Championships in Tokyo. I also contacted the people who had been involved in that story, the people from the International Judo Federation, who had a lot of information. And then I heard this Iranian coach who is now on the refugee team.
When did you think about writing it and shooting it in two?
GN: Almost immediately. It was clear to me that I knew nothing about what an Iranian athlete might go through, I needed someone to make the film authentic and so I contacted Zar online and offered to write and develop it together. But it wasn’t just a support, Zar when she arrived began to broaden and deepen the script to make it authentic and not like the American perception of a story of this type. And since I opened up to this collaboration everything has changed.
Were you already thinking of being a director?
ZAR AMIR EBRAHIMI: I was just preparing my first feature film.
And did you know it?
GN: I had done my homework.
ZAE: In the end I’ve been making short films for years, mainly in Paris, and also documentaries, so let’s say it was part of my plan to move on to directing. It wasn’t an easy decision anyway, even though I’ve been contributing to the films I star in for years without being credited.
Why did you have to think about it? Given what you wanted, does it seem like the offer you wanted?
ZAE: Because I had my fears related to working with an Israeli. I grew up in a country where people like Guy are the enemy. If I walk down the street once with an Israeli I am automatically a spy. It’s not easy to decide something like this. I was also worried about my family and friends who worked with me. In fact, everyone invited me to be careful and think about it carefully. But in the end even my closest collaborators, exactly those who after this decision would no longer be able to work with me, told me that I had to do it. It took courage to break this barrier but once you do it comes back so much more.
How did you divide the work on set?
GN: It didn’t take us long to figure out how to collaborate. She mostly followed the actors, above all because she speaks and understands their language and then because she is a great director of actors, I dealt more with the shooting aspects, but we often exchanged. We were both at the monitor making decisions on each take. We looked at each other and if it was okay with both of us, we proceeded. And it was crazy at one point to realize that, Oh my God, we were actually doing this. We were collaborating.
ZAE: It was one of my many fears. How can we collaborate, directors are the most centralizing people in the world, how can we reconcile our egos? But we did it.
You had to hurry given the type of production, yet there are quite complicated sequences, especially those involving judo fights, or those in which we talk and walk.
ZAE: The protagonist arrived with 3-4 months of training under her belt and has a background in boxing, which is a different sport but still a sportswoman. Then we had a coach who prepared us remotely from LA and the judo coach of the Georgian national team, where we filmed. Even all the athletes you see are all real Georgian judo athletes.
Even the Israeli challenger?
GN: No she is an Israeli actress who has trained. And to optimize while we worked on the fight choreography, Zar worked with the other actresses.
In the end, how long did it take you to shoot?
ZAE: I think 27 days.
GN: Another week would have been useful
To do what?
ZAE: To not have to do everything in one or two takes.
GN: Both Zar and I had made films before with a lot more money and going back to making a film in 27 days and with little funding wasn’t easy.
ZAE: Georgians don’t understand English well, all the cast came from different countries, it wasn’t easy to communicate on set.
Why black and white?
GN: Because these women live in a black and white world. If they tell you not to compete, don’t compete, there are no gray areas. And that’s what happens at that stage. Also black and white is more abstract, it gives you the idea that this story could take place in any era and with any other conflict.
How is this film perceived in Israel?
GN: I think it’s a film that can be appreciated by Israelis who have a certain mentality, inclined towards what the film says. The new generations more than anything else. People who want change and a different government. Who wants to know Iranians. And then there are a lot of Iranians in Israel, I think that when the film comes out there they will be the first to go and see it.
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